Q&A: Reader Questions About Social Security & Opting Out

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Q: I’m having an accountant do my taxes who I believe hasn’t done taxes for pastors before. This is my first year in full-time ministry. My accountant is under the impression from Form 4361 that I have to be in ministry for 2 years before I can file for tax exemption. My understanding is that I just need to file this form within 2 years of claiming exemption. Can you help clarify?

A: You are correct. You can file Form 4361 the day you become a licensed minister if you want to. After 2 years, you have missed your opportunity and will be a part of the Social Security system permanently. Until you have an approved Form 4361 from the IRS you will have to pay Social Security taxes, but they can be refunded once you have an approved exemption.

Q: My husband is on staff at a local church as a licensed minister. He has been on staff for less than 2 years. Prior to that, he was in corporate America for 35 years. I understand that he is now considered self-employed. Please tell me the pros and cons of opting out of Social Security taxes. If he opts out, can he still draw Social Security and Medicare at retirement age since he has paid in for 35 years? We were told that Social Security is calculated on the 10 highest earnings years of employment. Is this true? I have a Form 4361 to fill out and send in to the IRS. I would like information prior to submitting that request. I am getting conflicting information from our CPA and staff lawyer. 

A: Your husband is considered self-employed only for Social Security & Medicare (payroll) taxes. If he receives a W-2 from his church, then for income tax reasons he is still treated as an employee. (Confusing, I know.)

As for opting out of Social Security, that will not affect his eligibility for benefits that he has already earned. Social Security benefits are calculated based on 35 years’ worth of earnings. The minimum you need to have worked is 10 years, but they take numbers from 35 years to calculate your average earnings. 

If he opts out, then he will not have to pay any payroll taxes on his pastoral income. When filing taxes, he would just calculate income taxes from his W-2 as he has been doing all of these years. If he doesn’t opt out, then he will have to pay 15.3% of his income in payroll taxes. When filing his tax return, he will have to fill out Schedule SE to calculate those taxes. The church is not allowed to pay payroll taxes for him.

Q: I am a retired teacher of 31 years. I retired in 2010, and am currently collecting Social Security. I entered the ministry as a pastor in 2010 and currently am pastoring. My accountant said I should not pay self-employment because I have enough paid in. I am a bit nervous. Can I lose what I currently am collecting, Medicare, etc. by filing 4361?

A: Opting out of Social Security will not affect the benefits that you are currently eligible for. However, you are only allowed to opt out of Social Security for religious reasons or matters of conscience. The IRS spells it out very clearly that you are not allowed to opt out for economic reasons. Also, if you have been pastoring since 2010 then you are no longer eligible to opt out. You only have about 2 years after you enter the ministry to elect that option.

Q: I am applying for spousal benefits from my deceased wife’s Social Security. I have a small $8,000 401(a) where I work as a chaplain who opted out with Form 4361. The Social Security rep is telling me I may be subject to WEP/GPO reduction if my 401(a) is a pension.

A: The Social Security Administration’s Operations Manual clearly states that “A monthly periodic payment to a minister based on service as a minister is not considered a pension for purposes of WEP.” You can refer the SS rep to this webpage

Q: I filed a Form 4361 after seminary. I worked as a sole proprietor in secular work for 20 years.  Now (last 7 years) I am working for a non-profit religious organization and they have been making payments to Social Security. How do I know if these payments will be credited to my Social Security benefits or not? If I have the organization stop these how do I know the effect on my future benefits?

A: The best thing for you to do is to set up an account at ssa.gov where you can see your earnings history. That way, you will know the amount of income for each year that the Social Security Administration (SSA) is using to calculate your benefits. You can see if the payments your organization has been making are being credited.

The SSA calculates benefits based on your highest 35 years’ earnings. If you have less than 35 years, they just use zeroes for the extra years up to 35. So, fewer years of work or lower pay will result in lower benefits.

If you are working as a “minister of the gospel” for your current organization, then they are not supposed to be paying Social Security for you. The definition of “minister of the gospel” is the same for Social Security and the housing allowance, so you can learn more about that here

Q: We have a pastor that was cut from salary to hourly wages. With now paying hourly wages, is the church responsible to pay half of the Social Security and Medicare taxes?

A: As long as the pastor is still functioning as a pastor, she is still responsible for paying her own payroll taxes regardless of the hours that she works. It is not the church’s responsibility.

Q: I am an ordained minister and I am a real estate agent. The income I receive as a minister is very little and the income I receive from the real estate work is better. I have 3 questions:

1. Do I file Form 4361 and WAIT for an approval response from the IRS before I can file my regular taxes?

2. If I get the 4361 approved, does that mean I can include this form every time I file my real estate taxes and then not pay taxes? Then I would not have to pay taxes from my real estate earnings.

3. Later on in future years, I understand that once the 4361 is approved we can file form 2031 to revoke the renouncing of receiving public insurance (Social Security). How difficult is obtaining the 2031 approval?

A: Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Go ahead and file your taxes as usual. Once your Form 4361 is approved, you can request a refund of any Social Security taxes that you have paid for your ministerial services up to that point. Because of the coronavirus, this year’s tax filing deadline has been extended to July 15, so you can wait up until then if you would prefer to wait.

2. Form 4361 only applies to your ministerial earnings. Your real estate income is subject to Social Security and taxed as usual. 

3. Filing Form 2031 to opt back into Social Security is not currently an option. Several times over the past 50 years Congress has enacted a special rule where ministers had a one-time opportunity to opt back into Social Security with that form, the last time being in 2002. As such, I would not count on that option being available in the future.

Do you have a question? Feel free to ask!

Also, some of these questions should really show you the importance of working with financial professionals who understand clergy issues!

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How To Get A Free Copy Of Your Credit Report & What To Do With It

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Thanks to COVID-19 and the containment efforts, our country and most of the world are in a financial crisis. In times like these, you need to be even more alert to guard your financial life. You don’t only have to guard your income and spending, but your records and good standing. Financial crises elicit scammers and fraudulent activity just as the scent of blood draws sharks. One of your best preventive tools in this fight is your credit report. 

What Is A Credit Report?

Your credit report is a historical record of how you have borrowed and repaid debts. It contains personal identifying information such as your Social Security number, birth date, current and former addresses, and employers. The information regarding debt that it reports include:

  • Address and telephone number for the creditor
  • Basic account information (the date it was opened and the type of account it is)
  • If the account is open or closed
  • The monthly payment
  • The credit limit
  • The latest activity on the account
  • The current balance
  • Any amounts past due 
  • Account status; whether current, 30 days past due, 60 days past due, or 90 days past due
  • Collection activity; such as whether it has gone to collections or involves a repossession or charge off

Your credit report also contains certain public record information, such as court judgments (and sometimes even just lawsuits) against you, garnishments, tax liens, foreclosures, and bankruptcies. If you have submitted any statements to the credit bureaus regarding your report or credit history and any unresolved disputes, they should be included as well. 

How Do I Get A Free Credit Report?

There are multiple credit reporting agencies and each one creates their own version of your credit report. The three major reporting agencies, or credit bureaus, are Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Most people or organizations that access credit reports do so through one of those three. As such, when requesting a copy of your credit report you want to make sure you get all three versions from the three different agencies.

Federal law dictates that every person is entitled to a free copy of their credit report once a year. They even created a website through which to access them, Annualcreditreport.com. There are a number of websites that try to imitate the official site but then charge you for your report. If you don’t want to pay for copies of your credit report you must use the site linked above. When you use that site, you only have to make your request once. It will send the information to all three credit bureaus so that you will receive all three reports.

Because of the increase in fraudulent activity brought on by the COVID-19 crisis, Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion have banded together to offer free weekly credit reports until April 2021. You no longer have to wait a year or pay. You can access them through the exact same website. On the site, you will notice a gray bar at the top of the site explaining the offer with a big red button to request your free credit reports.

What Should I Do With My Credit Report?

Once you get copies of your credit report, it’s time to review them. First, double-check that all of the personal information is accurate, including Social Security number, employers, and addresses. If you find any inaccuracies, it could be fraud or it could be an accidental mix-up with another person. I taught a financial class at my church and one of the members was amazed to find that there was another man in the same city with his exact name. All of that man’s debts appeared on my class member’s credit report.

After checking the personal information, go through and make sure you are familiar with every single account listed. You may find fraudulent activity or you may just find an old account that you forgot about that needs to be paid off or closed. If you do find anything that appears to be incorrect anywhere on the report, contact both the credit reporting company that issued the report and the business that issued the account. Here is a list of the most common errors found on a credit report.

Your credit report can also be used to gather information about your debts in order to come up with a plan to pay them off. I recommend using Dave Ramsey’s debt snowball method to eliminate debt. Paying off debt is not only a wise move, but it also helps you to build your credit and raise your credit score

Where Is My Credit Score?

Speaking of that, you might notice something that is not on your credit report: your credit score. That is because different companies and agencies use different formulas to calculate your credit score. The information in your credit report is what is used to calculate the score, but everyone does it differently and arrives at a different credit score. The law requires that you are provided with a free copy of your credit report but not your credit score. Because of this, you will not find a credit score on your free credit report and it is not an error. 

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How Can You Benefit From The COVID-19 Crisis?

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When is the last time you saw anything positive on the news? Even social media seems to have devolved into a giant whining match between the “stay home and live” and “live free or die” camps. We’re not going to get into that today. We’re going to take the Pollyanna approach. What good has come of this coronavirus crisis?

For me personally, I enjoy having my husband home an extra day each week. I’m really enjoying that my son’s karate has gone virtual so I no longer have to pack up the kids and sit on a wooden bench through every practice. Not having to rush the kids in the morning to make the bus has been really nice. I’m glad that I was already working and doing school virtually so I didn’t have any disruptions with that. And I’m also thankful that people will no longer think it strange that I do everything from home.

What about you? How have you benefited as a result of our current situation? If nothing comes to mind, take some time to think through these ways that you may be able to benefit:

Investments Are On Sale

Another way to say “the stock market is down 33%” is “buy 2 get 1 free sale on stocks.” While it would be nice for investments to always go up in value, they don’t. Having stock prices go down is actually a good thing for people with a long investing time horizon, because they get more for their money. 

Let’s look at an example with Disney stock. (This is not an investment recommendation, I only chose this stock because most people recognize the company.) If you had invested $1,000 in Disney stock on January 2, 2020, it would have bought you 6.75 shares of stock. If you had invested that same $1,000 on March 23, you would have gotten 11.66 shares of stock. That’s almost twice as much for the same amount of money. 

Now, pretend that 5 years from now everything is back to normal and Disney stock is selling for $200 a share. If you had bought on January 2, your investment is now worth $1,350 for a 35% increase. That’s pretty good, huh?

But wait until you see how the March 23 investment has done. That $1,000 investment is now worth $2,332. That is a 133% return! See what I mean by this being a good thing? 

It’s important to note, though, that there is no guarantee that stock prices will go up, and even if they do it can sometimes take a long time. Make sure any investments you make are appropriate for your own personal risk tolerance and time horizon.  

There Is Room To Trim Costs

One nice thing about being stuck at home is that you’re not spending money going out. This is especially relevant for pastors, who spend so much time meeting with people over food or coffee. A Zoom meeting with a cup of coffee from your kitchen probably costs a tenth of what it would at Starbucks. And that’s not even considering the cost of gas to get there and the wear and tear on your car.

Sitting at home isn’t the only way that this current situation can help your budget. A lot of companies are favorably disposed to providing discounts right now as they try to maintain their customer base. Now is the time to call around and see what kind of costs you can trim. If you have credit card debt, call and ask for a lower interest rate. Contact your internet provider and ask for a better deal. (This is something you should do regardless of the economic environment. Ours just offered us twice the speed for half the cost.) Take advantage of this time to trim your costs and free up more financial margin for your family.

Government Aid Is Available

There is a certain benefit to having the entire country go through difficult times simultaneously instead of doing it as an individual. The government pays attention. Normally, you have to wait a week to collect unemployment benefits after you lose a job. Then, the benefits are only half of your pay and run out after a certain amount of time. And self-employed people, independent contractors, and part-time workers are not eligible. 

Thanks to the CARES Act, that has all changed. Unemployment benefits are available to more people and at higher levels. Because this is a national crisis and not just a personal one, there is more government aid available and more options for assistance for those who need it.

Interest Rates Are Low

The Federal Reserve acted quickly and seriously when they saw what coronavirus would do to the economy and they slashed interest rates to near zero. This brought on such a wave of mortgage refinancing that lenders had to raise rates just to slow demand. They have recovered from the onslaught, though, and mortgage rates dropped to their lowest level last week since they began tracking it in 1971.

Homeowners aren’t the only ones who can benefit from low interest rates. Anyone with debt can. Student loans can be refinanced, auto loans can be refinanced, just about any debt can.

Family Time Is Up

While interest rates are down, family time is up. Personally, I haven’t been home alone since March 13. Not that I’m keeping track or anything. 

While constant contact with family in close quarters can be challenging, it is also a blessing. Now is a great time to strengthen family relationships, resolve issues, and spend quality time together. Whether you like it or not. It may be hard at times, but these are days that you should cherish because they are fleeting. 

Your Lifestyle Is On The Table For Reevaluation

Speaking of family time being fleeting, did you know that you have control over that? Now is the time for you to lay everything on the table for a reassessment. God has hit pause on our lives to give us a chance to reevaluate whether or not they are the lives we really want or should have.

Maybe there was something that you thought was essential in your life that you haven’t even missed. Or maybe there is something that you took for granted and are now pining for. Be intentional about the life you choose when we come out of this. This is the perfect time to take a step back and look at the life you were living and the direction you were going and ask yourself, “Is this what I really want for me and my family?” It may be a confirmation of the choices you’ve made or a wake-up call to make some changes.

People Are Looking For Answers

You’re not the only one who is taking this time to look at your life with new eyes. People all around the globe have been jolted awake to the reality of their lack of control and mortality. When we come face-to-face with our human limitations, we yearn for a limitless God. Let’s introduce everyone to Him. 

While many are mourning the loss of in-person church services, this may actually be a benefit in this regard. There are a lot of people out there who are simply afraid to go to church. I had a friend say once that she thought she would be struck by lightning if she did. And others are a little bit interested but simply too lazy to get there. The allure of online church is that it’s anonymous and you don’t have to put any effort into how you look or getting there. The closure of our church buildings has actually removed many of the barriers that keep those who need God from finding him. Let’s take advantage of that.


While I miss seeing friends, live worship services, and uninterrupted time to work, not everything is bad. There is a silver lining to the storm clouds that are raining on our nation and world. I’ve listed some of the benefits here but I know there are more. What other benefits have you seen during this time? Share with us in the comments!

If you liked this article, check out my book Redeeming the Coronavirus Crisis: How to Emerge from the COVID-19 Lockdown Smarter, Healthier, Happier, and Poised to Conquer Your World.

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